At the beggining of the 3rd Presidential debate last night Kerry was asked if he thought people were born homosexual.

In an effort that WILL backfire, Kerry expalined his views on homosexuality by using (of all the people in the world he could have used) a person whom he's never spoken with (Dick Cheney's daughter). Dick and Lynne Cheney's daughter is a lesbian and her parents love her like good parents love all their children--unconditionally.

Kerry could have easily cited Barney Frank (from Massachusetts) or some other PUBLIC figure he actually knows he is openly OUT to use as an example. He didn't do this, he tried to use Dick Cheney's daughter (again--who he has never talked to) to explain how SHE feels.

He did this in a thinly vailed attempt to try and hurt Cheney with a small handfull (if they even exist in 2004) of people that would hold that against someone.

The fact is that Cheney is a man that loves his daughters unconditonally like any good father would.

As stated in the begining of this rant, this WILL backfire on Kerry--the Media has jumped on and spoke of this "DIRTY TRICK' and people all across the nation saw Kerry for the little man that he is.

Kerry had the majority of the gay vote, I bet not a few of them who are senisitve to "outing" (especially for insesitive shameless arttempt for political gain) will now choose to sit this out.
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ELIZABETH EDWARDS ACCUSES LYNNE CHENEY OF "SHAME" OF HER DAUGHTER, QUESTIONS HER CRITICISM OF KERRY'S MARY CHENEY REFERENCE


ELIZABETH EDWARDS ON ABC RADIO: "She's overreacted to this and treated it as if it's shameful to have this discussion. I think that's a very sad state of affairs… I think that it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences… It makes me really sad that that's Lynne's response."


LYNNE CHENEY AT POST-DEBATE RALLY: "The only thing I could conclude is that this is not a good man. This is not a good man. And, of course, I'm speaking as a mom. And a pretty indignant one. This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick."


DICK CHENEY TO NBC AFFILIATE WHO: "I would have said Sen. Kerry was out of line to bring my daughter into it. I thought it was totally inappropriate."


WHAT KERRY SAID: "And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as."


KERRY CAMPAIGN: Senior Kerry aide acknowledges "it was not his best moment," but calls charges that it was inappropriate "ridiculous… The woman is in her thirties. She's public about her sexuality. It was brought up in the last debate. So, what the hell?" ABC News' Marc Ambinder reports…

As usual with your posting topics Rory... much ado about nothing!

Any swing voters who would make their decision based on ONE statement from these presidential "debates" deserves what they get. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hell... without this kind of sh!t to get all worked up about... we'd actually have to consider the REAL issues... imagine that!

Great fillibuster and diversionary tactic.

Funny, that Dick didn't have a problem with Edwards discussing it during the VP debates and didn't say anything about it after Kerry's remark.

And Kerry hardly "outed" Cheney's daughter. Her sexuality has been common knowledge for years.

By the way, the quotes you posted actually argue against your own point. Way to go, Flipper.

Sounds to me like the Cheney's are conflitcted and would rather sweep their daughter's identity into the closet. I thought what Kerry had to say was right on the mark, not mean spirited and the name he referred to (Cheney's daughter) was immaterial. He just answered the question that was asked.

I find it very interesting that the Bush ticket, on every major election that he has been involved in, has claimed no affiliation with underhand attacks on their opponent (Ann Richards, John McCain, and now Kerry). If you doubt this, watch the frontline piece that was shown on PBS about Bush and Kerry. I might feel differently about Kerry's use of Cheney's daughter, but not after how this administration has behaved.

What a pack of moron's . It is common courtesy not to include either sides kids in the election. The kids had been off limits until last night. Maybe Cheney should talk about how Kerry's wife talks more about her ex husband than she does about Kerry? Then we could really get down in the mud and roll around.

Yeah, like the Bush administration even has a concept of commom courtesy.

You fookin' idiot.

Now THAT'S funny king! Only a TRUE moron wouldn't know that an apostrophe IS NOT used unless it's posessive or a contraction. :p

Kid? As Harley stated, Cheney's daughter is in her thirties, so she hardly qualifies as a kid. There was NO derogatory connotation whatsoever towards her in Kerry's comment either. Get over it already!

Your backing a loser and it's pissin' you off! :p

So you would support the Bush campaign using Edwards dead son to make a campaign point? I mean he is dead what does he care?

No, I just wouldn't get so upset about it if it did come up...

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I'm going to call BS on that one.

It would depend on the context. I'm not sure how John Edwards' son died, but let's say it was from cancer. Let's then say that it was the Bush Administration's campaign position that funding for research into a cure for this disease was a high priority.

Let's now say that GWB mentioned JE's son as an example of how this research is very important. How could I possibly be offended by that unless I was grandstanding purely for political gain?

Kerry DID NOT insult or exploit the Cheney's daughter... he merely used her to illustrate the point he was trying to make.

It's the desperate attempts by the extreme right to exploit this, and Edward's comment referring to Chris Reeve for their own political purpose that I find "truly disgusting." :rolleyes:

I think if John Kerry came into your house, pulled down his pants and dropped a duece on your living room floor and proceeded to wipe your walls with it--you guys on the left would say how creative and artistic he was.

No RB they would help him

As usual... you got it all wrong Rory!

I am not now, nor have I ever been a devout Kerry fan. I also don't hate GWB. From a strictly personal standpoint, I don't think my life is gonna change all that much no matter WHO is in the Whitehouse, so I tend to vote the issues and ideology with which I most closely identify.

What I really don't like is when EITHER party resorts to diversionary tactics and downright dirty politics.

I know it's a load 'O laughs to come here and stir the political sh!t, and I enjoy doing some of it too. My only real issue is when we allow ths type of trivial bickering to interfere with what's REALLY important in this campaign... and IMHO, that is to be the most accurately informed and responsible voter you can be, regardless of your party affiliation.

The sun will rise in the West tomorrow - I'm going to agree with The King. It is common courtesy to not bring other candidates kids into the fray. They did not ask for the spotlight, their Dads did (in some cases Moms). There were other gay folks that Kerry could have used, it was bad form, and a real fumble to use Mary Cheney.

Having said that, I believe that once again Kerry won the debate. Bush's big fumble of the night was when he said that he never uttered the words, "I'm not concerned about him (OBL)". Tough to say when we have taped evidence. Oh, well. Only 19 days to go and (hopefully) this will be over and the 4 yr. b*tchfest can begin. My fervent hope is that we don't see a repeat of 2000. The race keeps tightening so, we'll see.

Kerry Lesbian Remark Angers Cheney

Oct 14, 4:12 PM (ET)

By VICKIE CHACHERE

FORT MYERS, Fla. (AP) - Vice President Dick Cheney called himself "a pretty angry father" on Thursday after Sen. John Kerry mentioned their gay daughter during the final presidential debate - comments Kerry said were meant to be positive about families with gay children.

The vice president's wife, Lynne Cheney, called Kerry "not a good man" and his remarks about daughter Mary Cheney "a cheap and tawdry political trick." Meanwhile, Elizabeth Edwards, the wife of vice presidential candidate John Edwards, suggested in a radio interview that Mrs. Cheney might feel "a certain degree of shame" because her daughter is a lesbian.

Mary Cheney, one of two Cheney daughters, is openly gay and an official in the Bush-Cheney campaign. The vice president has spoken at length about his daughter's sexuality and his view of gay relationships, even disagreeing with the president about the need for a constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriages.

Asked Wednesday night by debate moderator Bob Schieffer whether homosexuality is a choice, Kerry said: "We're all God's children, Bob, and I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice."

Kerry issued a statement Thursday after the Cheneys had expressed anger over his remarks: "I love my daughters. They love their daughter. I was trying to say something positive about the way strong families deal with this issue."

Cheney told supporters at a rally Thursday in Fort Myers, "You saw a man who will do and say anything to get elected, and I am not just speaking as a father here, although I am a pretty angry father." He made no other reference to Kerry's remarks about his daughter.

Mrs. Cheney, introducing her husband in a post-debate appearance Wednesday night in Coraopolis, Pa., also avoided a specific reference to her daughter's sexuality when she made clear she thought Kerry had crossed a line into family privacy.

"Now, you know, I did have a chance to assess John Kerry once more and now the only thing I could conclude: This is not a good man," Mrs. Cheney said. "Of course, I am speaking as a mom, and a pretty indignant mom. This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick."

In an interview Thursday with ABC Radio, Elizabeth Edwards said of Mrs. Cheney: "She's overreacted to this and treated it as if it's shameful to have this discussion. I think that's a very sad state of affairs. ... I think that it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences. ... It makes me really sad that that's Lynne's response

I agree with King and Eddie
Its just plain dirty politics

Bill Mahr is right.

Many Republicans are like little girls. "Ooooo...........waaaaaa.........he talked about Cheney's daughter. I'm outraged."

I thought being whiny and snivelly was liberal territory. :p

Its just dirty tactics
Anyone who brings up opposing family and personal issue to "convey" a message should not be considered a gentleman. Dirty tactics.
Why didnt bush mention to the US public about the fact that we would all have to be staring at kerrys ugly grin the next four years

You conservative crack me up! What a bunch of hypocrites
One of your heriones, Laura Ingram, used to take perverse pleasure in "outing" gays.
Let me guess...that's okay though right? You mental midgets are pitiful

Hey Stew,

Pull your pants down if your going to talk out of your A$$!

Laura Ingraham's brother is gay and she not only loves him dearly, she has him and his partner on her show from time to time.
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The point that seems to allude most of the 'enlightened' left is their own hypocricy on this issue.

Kerry clearly crossed a line.

The children of candidates have historically been hands off to opponents or their campaign efforts.

It was clear Kerry had planned to bring up the fact of Mary Cheney's sexuality before the debate, the way he managed to do it seemed contrived (Little Johnny did the same little trick during th VP debate-but with the smoothness of a Gemini tongue it largely went unnoticed).

Turn the tables and imagine what the reaction of the left (enlightened liberals) would have been if Bush had tried to make some political gain by using the same tawdy political trick on Kerry or Edwards if they had a child that was a gay or lesbian (without ever meeting that child or having talked to them about anything--much less their personal feelings).

They would scream that Bush was an insensitive homophobe that deserved to be burned at the stake.

The way Kerry's campaign camp talked about the issue afterwards makes it quite clear that this was discussed/planned in advance.

Out of all the openly out and public gay/lesbians Kerry could have referenced (that he could actually says he knows and have talked to about their thoughts on personal issues) that didn't happen to be the offspring of his opponent--He chose Mary Cheney (who he has never talked to but feels free to quote how she feels). Like Alanis says, "Isn't it Ironic?"

What a scumbag!

Mrs. Edwards comments are particularly digusting:

ELIZABETH EDWARDS ON ABC RADIO: "She's overreacted to this and treated it as if it's shameful to have this discussion. I think that's a very sad state of affairs… I think that it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences… It makes me really sad that that's Lynne's response."

Bottom line: Kerry is not a good man.

Stew : You are not a good man either

My, my, my, but aren't the radically right getting emotional?

A 30 year old woman still considered "children?" If it's so heinous a crime against Mary, why hasn't she spoken out? The Log Cabin Republicans don't seem to find a problem with it. Nor do the right-winged pundits that appeared on Fox News today.

Admit it, Krusty, it's pure desperation by the cons.

BTW, it's no surprise that "cons" is short not only for conservatives, but for convicts and con-artists as well.

Although I hate the thought of another 4 yrs. of Bush/Cheney I must point out again that Dick Cheney can bring up his daughter because he is her father!! I believe JFK crossed a line last night and I hope it doesn't hurt him. I'm hoping that Bush's abysmal performance in the Debates has shown him for what he truly is - a dangerous man who should only get into the White House on Visitors Day.

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KK,

As they say, "Whatever gets you through the night." If that makes you feel better about the SMALL little man you support regardless of what pablum he spews---Help yourself to happiness!

Kerry could have used a hundred other gays or lebians--he made a CALCULATED decission to use Mary Cheney.

We all know that alot could be made of Tereeeeeza given all of her rants. Have you heard George Bush ever say anything about her other than a complement?

Has Bush or Cheney ever said anything about the oppositions children?

The candidates are fair game, their children are not!

You won't hear Bush or Cheney say anything about Kerry or Edwards wives or children, because unlike sKerry and little Johnnie--they have class.

Eddie,

You're a good ambassador for your side of the isle.

When you're honest with yourself and others and call something for what it is--BS (whether it benefits your candidate or not) You have alot more credibility when you go off on the opposition when they cross a line.

Ed...How much would you charge me for diplomacy lessons?

Hey........I'm going fishing tomorrow. You guys keep crying like you are and the rivers are gonna puke out. :p

Gramps, for you - no charge. I love a challenge.

And now we see the signature hypocrisy of the ultra-right. While accusing Kerry of using reference to their adult daughter's sexuality for his political gain, the Cheney's keep the story in the media and the GOP adds it to their daily talking points ....

... for political gain.

It's a beautiful thing.

Kerry didn't put cheney's daughter into play, cheney put her own daughter on the line. It was alright for D!ck(head) Cheney to try and gain favor with the gay community, but when Kerry used her as a reference(just like her daddy did) then everyone(republicos) have a fit.
I guess you(republicos)still think that what is good for the goose, is not good for the gander.
Talk about whining and sniveling, she probabley turned gay after recognizing what turd her father is!....................

If Rush Limbaugh was gay in the woods and nobody was around to hear him would he still be wrong ????

In a word - YES!!

Great insightful comment!

Great insightful comment!

As sightful as some of yours!. What do you think that your the only one that can have an opinion?

Thats funny,usually people are snoozing after one of your diatribes, now you know how the rest of us feel.................Fishy.

For all of you Hanoi John apologists that maintain that John Kerry wasn't out of line in the 3rd presidential debate when he referenced, "VP Cheney's daughter-who IS A LESBIAN"......."She would tell you......"(someone he's never met or spoken with) after being asked about if he thought homosexuality was a choice.

I have a hypothetical question for you:

What if the moderator had asked Preseident Bush what he thinks about the number of Americans that are now clinically obese given all the health concerns that obesity poses--what can/should be done to deal with it?

Then after hearing the question, President Bush said, "Well, just look at my opponent's running mate John Edwards' wife WHO IS OBESE"........."She would tell you......."
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Do you think that would have been inappropriate and/or rude and disrespectfully out of line?

Rory,

You're still sniveling about this?

Move on already.

Edwards would have never said anything like that. He is a chubby chaser like most trial lawyers.

There you go RB comparing apples to mud pies,Sometimes it seems that you are SOO narrowly focused that you can not see the losing for the trees. Nov. 2nd your guy is going down, and the whole world will breath a collective sigh of relief..............Fishy.

Gay people can be fat.... whats the point here. Whats that got to do with anything....